I've heard that skill defeats size/strength when there's about a two-year skill advantage... UNLESS it's woman (skill) vs. man (strength), in which case it's more like a six-year skill advantage. Something to do with the inherent upper body strength advantage... anyway I'm finding that to be somewhat true, maybe more like a 2-3 year skill advantage if I'm lucky..
Georgette, thanks for commenting! That is super interesting. Are there URL citations for this rubric of size v strength with gendered variables (lots of tech work today, can you tell)? That *is* reassuring. I've been grappling since autumn 2004 but I had 9 months out in 2005 with (my first) knee injury and for the first few years I was doing more cross-training with other styles than I do now and only grappled 1/week with regularity. So, maybe that settles to about 4 years proper grappling experience (versus 6 years of elapsed time if you see what I mean)? In which case, this '4-year' skill gap gives me pretty reliable success versus strength and yes, with luck on my side, 2-3 is possible but seriously tricky. Interestingly, if the skill gap is there, at this stage, suddenly, the size gap doesn't really matter (everyone is at least 10 kilos heavier than me with most 15-25, but they can go up to nearly twice my size). It is as if once you get over a certain threshold of skill differential the weight thing is just a matter of degrees that is pretty much conquered. More experimentation needed and I suppose now the Big Boys will see this and prove me utterly wrong - haha :D This is a really exciting factoid, Georgette, and I want to know more! Can be helpful for setting goals and not being so hard on myself. Just try to keep working towards decreasing N where N is years of skill advantage :D
Yeah, I certainly hope that is true, as I've been pretty much 100% defensive since I started in 2006 (small guy rather than a woman, but a certain amount of cross-over in terms of the common situations I face when sparring bigger guys). It would be nice to imagine an offence might start to creep in somewhere in the next couple of years. ;)
Hi slideyfoot! Certainly seems to be an intuitively 'true' rubric, and I hope to find the provenance of the stat soon. While there are clearly physical attributes at play in this issues of size/strength/skill/sex I do think, for me, that I can get stuck in a comfort zone of defence and I'm at the point where I really need to let go of the fears that are blocking me so that I can take it up a notch. So what, I'm going to get caught out, smashed, tapped (more) and mess it up, but if I persist with seeking to attack more and better I will get there. Easy to say and just when I think I've got the ego in check... ;)
I had a very eye-opening conversation about my game yesterday. For as long as I remember I've been concentrating on getting to a dominant position and maintaining it. I was told that I'm too afraid to go for the submissions even though there are plenty of opportunities and would rather sit comfortable on top of the opponent :( I tried to justify as much as possible but at the end I had to admit, it is true. I liked the journey with no pressure to finish anyone, now as I'm getting close to purple belt, the things have to change. Need to get more confident. Thanks Meg, I needed the reminder.
Triin, sister, you remind me! I will surf a dude for ages and ages, maintaining the mount, rather than go for the subs. And after a while they do start to get worried and sloppy with the arms - arm bar city - but I too am to afraid of losing the top position (that I worked so so hard for) and going back to Crushville on the bottom. BUT, darnit, I've got a good grasp of getting to and maintaining the top position so need to step up, lose the ego and go for the opportunities. The old adage 'position, control, submission', seems ours games are at the point where it is time to look more deeply at the third aspect :) For me, much more consistent results with one offensive flow has improved my confidence, but there are still a lot of demons and their talk. Part of the challenge and reward matrix of jits :)
That sounds very familiar, Triin. If I get on top, I'm always much more concerned about maintaining rather than than submitting, even when I manage to settle into a good position.
Last session, I was sat on top with a mounted triangle nearly locked in, and I ended up mostly just staring at him rather than doing anything with it.
So there IS light at the end of the crsuhy tunnel!! I am so glad I read this post. Sometimes it really messes with my head who hard I have to fight just to defend against big, strong white belts. I really like what you said about having to believe in the techniques you know. I chicken out on leaving my guard with big guys a lot of times because I am afraid. Not going to get me anywhere except smashed. ;)
Thanks for your comment, A.D. McClish! I hope I didn't suggest that I was on the other side of being crushed and of taking a smashing! I'm not and there are so many areas for improvement, but you know that, that's the fun of jits! I have learned/re-learned in a new context a valuable lesson about persistence, letting go of fear, trusting in the technique and that sort of thing. Very difficult to put into practice, but bringing this one area of offence together has been a huge confidence boost, just takes time. Lots of time and practice and faith in yourself and the technique. Another one of my Coach's bits of wisdom is 'trust the technique', it is a hard way to work but for those of us without the option of 'muscling it' it is the only option you know this! My team mate Charlotte is 40 kilos. She has a very hard time, as you can imagine. The only thing better than her RNC is her clock choke which is INSANE. She is working working working for the back and if she gets there, she will close the deal! Very inspiring and that ability is the product of so much determination. Heard something on the radio this morning about the mark of a successful person is 'not know what you can't do', want to keep that close to my heart :)
Allie and I were talking earlier about how sometimes it can be crappy to be the most senior girls in our school. (Her far more so than I for sure, even more so now due to my extended break.)
We don't have any team mates, or coaches who truly understand what it is to be a female grappler, and while they are encouraging and supportive, it is a whole different ball game for females. Sometimes we wanna hit out heads against the wall because they just don't get it... not through any fault of their own, just their generic makeup. =)
I'm so glad to have you, and other female bloggers like you who are willing to share your experiences and advice with us younger (in grappling time) grapplers.
Thank so much for your comment, Stephanie! I am moved and humbled that you find my story useful for your own journey. The response to this post has made me really aware that I'm not alone and it is very heartening! I suppose we may all fall into a trap of feeling frustrated and be too tough on ourselves when we compare our abilities on the mats to others. At least that is the case for me and I try to remind myself that we all have different demons and challenges to face in our jits journeys and we just gotta stay the course and we'll get there. I would love to know how really elite female grapplers do with the guys that they train with; black belt women's experiences of the strength/skill gap - I suppose we'll know ourselves one day but would be nice to have an understanding of how senior grade females fare with offence and defence with their male training partners.
Oh goodness, so reassuring :) :)
ReplyDeleteI've heard that skill defeats size/strength when there's about a two-year skill advantage... UNLESS it's woman (skill) vs. man (strength), in which case it's more like a six-year skill advantage. Something to do with the inherent upper body strength advantage... anyway I'm finding that to be somewhat true, maybe more like a 2-3 year skill advantage if I'm lucky..
Georgette, thanks for commenting! That is super interesting. Are there URL citations for this rubric of size v strength with gendered variables (lots of tech work today, can you tell)? That *is* reassuring. I've been grappling since autumn 2004 but I had 9 months out in 2005 with (my first) knee injury and for the first few years I was doing more cross-training with other styles than I do now and only grappled 1/week with regularity. So, maybe that settles to about 4 years proper grappling experience (versus 6 years of elapsed time if you see what I mean)? In which case, this '4-year' skill gap gives me pretty reliable success versus strength and yes, with luck on my side, 2-3 is possible but seriously tricky. Interestingly, if the skill gap is there, at this stage, suddenly, the size gap doesn't really matter (everyone is at least 10 kilos heavier than me with most 15-25, but they can go up to nearly twice my size). It is as if once you get over a certain threshold of skill differential the weight thing is just a matter of degrees that is pretty much conquered. More experimentation needed and I suppose now the Big Boys will see this and prove me utterly wrong - haha :D This is a really exciting factoid, Georgette, and I want to know more! Can be helpful for setting goals and not being so hard on myself. Just try to keep working towards decreasing N where N is years of skill advantage :D
ReplyDeleteExcellent post Meg!
ReplyDeleteThank you for reading, Triin, I'm glad you liked it!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I certainly hope that is true, as I've been pretty much 100% defensive since I started in 2006 (small guy rather than a woman, but a certain amount of cross-over in terms of the common situations I face when sparring bigger guys). It would be nice to imagine an offence might start to creep in somewhere in the next couple of years. ;)
ReplyDeleteHi slideyfoot! Certainly seems to be an intuitively 'true' rubric, and I hope to find the provenance of the stat soon. While there are clearly physical attributes at play in this issues of size/strength/skill/sex I do think, for me, that I can get stuck in a comfort zone of defence and I'm at the point where I really need to let go of the fears that are blocking me so that I can take it up a notch. So what, I'm going to get caught out, smashed, tapped (more) and mess it up, but if I persist with seeking to attack more and better I will get there. Easy to say and just when I think I've got the ego in check... ;)
ReplyDeleteThanks for commenting!
I had a very eye-opening conversation about my game yesterday. For as long as I remember I've been concentrating on getting to a dominant position and maintaining it. I was told that I'm too afraid to go for the submissions even though there are plenty of opportunities and would rather sit comfortable on top of the opponent :( I tried to justify as much as possible but at the end I had to admit, it is true.
ReplyDeleteI liked the journey with no pressure to finish anyone, now as I'm getting close to purple belt, the things have to change. Need to get more confident. Thanks Meg, I needed the reminder.
Triin, sister, you remind me! I will surf a dude for ages and ages, maintaining the mount, rather than go for the subs. And after a while they do start to get worried and sloppy with the arms - arm bar city - but I too am to afraid of losing the top position (that I worked so so hard for) and going back to Crushville on the bottom. BUT, darnit, I've got a good grasp of getting to and maintaining the top position so need to step up, lose the ego and go for the opportunities. The old adage 'position, control, submission', seems ours games are at the point where it is time to look more deeply at the third aspect :) For me, much more consistent results with one offensive flow has improved my confidence, but there are still a lot of demons and their talk. Part of the challenge and reward matrix of jits :)
ReplyDeleteThat sounds very familiar, Triin. If I get on top, I'm always much more concerned about maintaining rather than than submitting, even when I manage to settle into a good position.
ReplyDeleteLast session, I was sat on top with a mounted triangle nearly locked in, and I ended up mostly just staring at him rather than doing anything with it.
BAHHAHA! I am imagining the chokees face ;D Do all smallies love triangle from mount?
ReplyDeleteOh my, glad to hear we are all in the same surf team! Cheers!
ReplyDelete'Surf team'. I love it!
ReplyDeleteSo there IS light at the end of the crsuhy tunnel!! I am so glad I read this post. Sometimes it really messes with my head who hard I have to fight just to defend against big, strong white belts. I really like what you said about having to believe in the techniques you know. I chicken out on leaving my guard with big guys a lot of times because I am afraid. Not going to get me anywhere except smashed. ;)
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment, A.D. McClish! I hope I didn't suggest that I was on the other side of being crushed and of taking a smashing! I'm not and there are so many areas for improvement, but you know that, that's the fun of jits! I have learned/re-learned in a new context a valuable lesson about persistence, letting go of fear, trusting in the technique and that sort of thing. Very difficult to put into practice, but bringing this one area of offence together has been a huge confidence boost, just takes time. Lots of time and practice and faith in yourself and the technique. Another one of my Coach's bits of wisdom is 'trust the technique', it is a hard way to work but for those of us without the option of 'muscling it' it is the only option you know this! My team mate Charlotte is 40 kilos. She has a very hard time, as you can imagine. The only thing better than her RNC is her clock choke which is INSANE. She is working working working for the back and if she gets there, she will close the deal! Very inspiring and that ability is the product of so much determination. Heard something on the radio this morning about the mark of a successful person is 'not know what you can't do', want to keep that close to my heart :)
ReplyDeleteI just wanna hug you for this post. <3
ReplyDeleteAllie and I were talking earlier about how sometimes it can be crappy to be the most senior girls in our school. (Her far more so than I for sure, even more so now due to my extended break.)
We don't have any team mates, or coaches who truly understand what it is to be a female grappler, and while they are encouraging and supportive, it is a whole different ball game for females. Sometimes we wanna hit out heads against the wall because they just don't get it... not through any fault of their own, just their generic makeup. =)
I'm so glad to have you, and other female bloggers like you who are willing to share your experiences and advice with us younger (in grappling time) grapplers.
It helps so much. =)
Thank so much for your comment, Stephanie! I am moved and humbled that you find my story useful for your own journey. The response to this post has made me really aware that I'm not alone and it is very heartening! I suppose we may all fall into a trap of feeling frustrated and be too tough on ourselves when we compare our abilities on the mats to others. At least that is the case for me and I try to remind myself that we all have different demons and challenges to face in our jits journeys and we just gotta stay the course and we'll get there. I would love to know how really elite female grapplers do with the guys that they train with; black belt women's experiences of the strength/skill gap - I suppose we'll know ourselves one day but would be nice to have an understanding of how senior grade females fare with offence and defence with their male training partners.
ReplyDeleteThanks again for reading, means a lot :)
Very good post, Meg. And good comments, too!
ReplyDeleteIt is good to hear that others fare just like I do. It confirms that there is nothing wrong with me :-)
Too kind, cy! Thanks for commenting and I'm so pleased to hear the conversation is meaningful to you.
ReplyDeleteI would love to know how elite black belt women get on in their day to day training with big strong dudes...